(Conversation recorded on May 8, 2024)
Show summary
Without a systems perspective, the full reality of the human condition will never be understood. Only when we embrace this kind of holistic, far-reaching thinking can we appreciate the complexity and nuances of how the biosphere, geopolitics, economics, energy, and many other systems interact and affect each other. Historically, however, the scientific community did not harness the power of systems thinking until a few pioneering figures advanced and popularized this way of looking at the world.
Today, Nate speaks with one of the greatest systems thinkers, physicist and deep ecologist Fritjof Capra, to discuss how his worldview has been shaped by his decades of work in physics, ecology, and community development—and his conclusions that addressing our ecological and social crises requires a broader shift in our values and philosophies.
How are science and spirituality closely intertwined, although they are often mistakenly separated in modern culture? How would our ideas about consciousness change if we understood the interconnectedness of all life and our place in it? What might our societies look like if we emphasized the importance of a deeper relationship with the natural world and prioritized human well-being over economic growth?
About Fritjof Capra
Fritjof Capra, Ph.D., is a physicist and systems theorist. He was the founding director (1995-2020) of the Center for Ecoliteracy in Berkeley, California. He is a lecturer at the Amana-Key Executive Education Program in São Paulo, Brazil, and a Fellow of Schumacher College in the UK. Capra is the author of several international bestsellers, including The Tao of Physics, The Web of Life, and The Science of Leonardo. He is co-author of the multidisciplinary textbook The Systems View of Life. Capra’s online course is based on his textbook.
Support the Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future
Subscribe to our Substack newsletter
Join our Discord channel and connect with other listeners
Watch on YouTube
View notes and links to learn more
PDF transcript
00:00 – Fritjof Capra’s works + information, Center for Ecoliteracy, books: The Tao of Physics + The Web of Life + The Systemic View of Life
02:52 – Werner Heisenberg, physics and philosophy
03:33 – Quantum theory
04:42 – Counterculture of the 1960s
05:30 – The Beatles and the Maharishi + George Harrison and Ravi Shankar
06:30 – Transpersonal Psychology, Free Speech Movement, Civil Rights Movement, Prague Spring
07:30 – Lectures: Parallels between modern physics and Eastern mysticism + Modern physics and Eastern mysticism
08:25 – Green politics, New Age movement
08:49 – Book: The Turning Point
10:40 – Global civil society
11:00 – Economic Superorganism
14:15 – Women’s liberation movement
14:43 – Iron Curtain
16:47 – Pier Luigi Luisi
17:45 – Polycrisis
8:57 p.m. – Gregory Bateson, Lynn Margulis, Hazel Henderson
24:30 – Bhagavad Gita, Alan Watts, DT Suzuki
27:49 – Neodarwinism
29:58 – Genetic change through gene transfer: Horizontal gene transfer and adaptive evolution in bacteria
30:05 – Genetic change through genetic acquisition: speciation through symbiosis + the endosymbiont hypothesis
34:40 – Indigenous perceptions of the human-nature relationship
34:57 – All life is genetically related
36:08 – David Steindl-Rast
36:10 – Etymology: Spirit + Anima + Psyche
37:05 – John Coltrane, Ali Akbar Khan, Ravi Shankar
42:45 – Melatonin and sleep + the hypnagogic state
44:04 – Sleep onset and creativity
45:20 – Consciousness and language + Language and culture
45:59 – Theory of the mind functioning as a machine + Treating the Earth’s systems as a machine
46:19 – Santiago Theory, Humberto Maturana, Francisco Varela
50:30 – Merlin Bird App
51:34 – Adam Smith on wealth and well-being
51:59 – David Korten, Ecological Civilization, Economic History Page 17
54:19 – Capra course
55:24 – Fridays for Future, Last Generation, Greta Thunberg
57:26 – Article: Qualitative growth
https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/138-fritjof-capra
