– The Dubai-based Kazakh director believes that toxic masculinity and sexism can be fought with reason rather than violence
After 2018 Bad, bad winter (Cannes ACID Competition), Olga Korotko brings her second feature film, Grilling, it’s your turn (+see also:
Film review
Interview: Olga Korotko
Film profile)to the Cineasti del Presente competition in Locarno. It is a story full of despicable men and brave women. Cineuropa’s conversation with Korotko developed into a discussion about exaggerated and repulsive characters that reflect toxic behavior in real life.
Cineuropa: You have dealt with difficult topics such as exploitation, patriarchy, hierarchy, rape and justice. How did you mentally approach such controversial topics when writing?
Olga Korotko: I don’t see them as independent of each other. They are symptoms of the same disease. Whether it’s patriarchy, discrimination or social injustice, the root of these problems is essentially the same. They just have different effects. So it was natural to mix these issues.
The monologue of the alpha male Bahyt (Arnur Kusaingazin), who discusses violence and Darwinism from a distorted perspective of toxic masculinity, is provocative. What did you want to express with this speech?
I believe that the common thread underlying these problems is the attitude that everything is a competition. Whoever is not the winner or the aggressor becomes the victim. Merey (Inzhu Abeu) defies this mentality. Since we have different things to offer the world, there is no need for competition or the desire to dominate.
Do the male characters have anything to offer the world? They are so mean and disgusting.
Yes, but they have the potential to change. I don’t believe in binary oppositions between good and evil. People act according to their mental map. These guys used their aggression for the wrong cause, but the same power could have been used for something better.
Every male character seems despicable. Was this an intentional exaggeration to create a harsh contrast and make a point?
Yes, this portrayal is not meant to be realistic. Even though the film shows Merey’s fantasies, the cinematic reality is not exactly the reality of her real life. The macho behavior is exaggerated. Also, the film title is an expression used in situations where the joke is not funny. I am making fun of the patriarchy and machismo, but there is nothing to laugh at as it is unnecessary.
Nurlan (Ayan Batyrbek) is less unpleasant, but still deeply unlikable. However, his desire to be better and his tendency to follow others probably make him even more problematic than his friends. Could you explain in more detail how you developed his character?
He is the type of person who believes in social Darwinism. He follows without having the will to dominate. He tries to adapt to the current group he is in, thus resembling a chameleon. In the beginning he is in a different group, but Nurlan’s final actions reflect his desire to adapt to the patriarchal system.
He never finds it a toxic environment?
Not really. Viewers who know the film will understand that he wants to draw attention to the problem. Nurlan cannot objectively judge the toxicity of the film from within. You have to get outside the system to be able to analyze it.
It almost becomes a pure revenge film, but in the end it is a cinematic murder of women. Why?
There is a notion that women, or victims in general, have to be as strong as the attackers to defeat them. We have to fight them on their own terrain and with their own weapons, which is essentially the essence of a revenge film. I understand the approach of fighting fire against fire for a good cause, but I believe there is an alternative. By choosing beauty, Merey wins. She uses her talent as a photographer to positively influence others. She is the only one who addresses the invited girls by name. Her camera lens does not turn them into objects.
Language is a crucial character trait, not only because of vocabulary but also because of the tendency to remain silent in certain situations. How much effort did you put into writing this speech?
A lot, especially when it comes to these macho and sex talks. I am not surrounded by such people, but one evening I ended up in such a circle by chance. They were boasting about similar macho stories. I got the material I was looking for. Also Nurlybek Maulezaripovwho plays Max, did research by observing acquaintances and surfing special forums. On set, he told these sexist stories about hiring girls. We filmed it. All the reactions of the other actors were authentic.
Russian is the main language spoken, but occasionally Kazakh phrases are spoken. Can you explain the bilingual aspect in more detail?
I wanted to recreate the reality of a mixture of cultures and languages. In Kazakhstan, people constantly switch between languages. At first, the script was only in Russian. Then I encouraged the actors to switch to Kazakh whenever they felt like it.
Bad, bad winter also explores similar dynamics. What appeals to you about creating stories with such heightened tension?
It comes from within. I believe that a film reflects the DNA of its creator. There is a tension simmering inside me that drives me to constantly search for answers. In terms of plot, the film is not that eventful, and there are not too many changes of location. I decided on a basic tension and the right rhythm.
